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A thought experiment - thanks to a Union Pacific conduction who thinks that poor people get a "lot" of government money.
The free public transportation for Illinois senior citizens is being phased out. The conductors were talking about it on the way back to Barrington from Chicago tonight. I chimed in, "they should have never gotten it in the first place."
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Shelli************
Mark, you are on a roll tonight! Let's also up welfare to pay for more drugs and booze for those folks who do not want to work! And keep more drug masking kits being made so addicts can pass their drug test and keep their welfare! Caught me In the last six months I have gone to funerals for upper class 22 year olds who over dosed. I despise drug dealers and those that choose drugs! Sorry, had to jump in there.
Mark Raymond Ganzer
It is not poor people who are selling drugs to upper class 22 year olds - I have written at great length on the suicides in Barrington (which I believe to be on the order of 6-8 per year, split evenly between train jumpers and heroin / crack OD).
The drug dealing capitals of the US are Barrington, Il ... Highland Park, IL, Fox Lake IL .... Wauconda, IL, Island Lake, IL, McHenry, IL, & Streamwood, IL
NONE of those communities has anything resembling poor people ... poor people don't deal drugs
But, this high school valedictorian was overseeing a 50-70 million $ a year operation, and continued to oversee it, while becoming the valedictorian from a very presitigious private school.
NONE of those communities has anything resembling a black or hispanic presence
NONE of those communities has poor people
The typical cocaine user is a 35-year while male, making 60,000-80,000 with a good job, a mortgage, and a wife, and yet, in Illinois about 4 years ago, there were 2 white males in prison for cocaine distribution and 1,007 black men for the same offense .... hmmm
So, why are you so upset at poor people, and where in the world do you get off thinking they'd all go out and spend it on booze ... I think they'd spend it on shelter and food first, maybe clothes for their kids, and YES, then maybe booze, and so, what?
And personally ... I think all those upper class 22 year olds who are stupid enough to do drugs ... deserve exactly what they get ... I have NO sympathy ... and ... p.s. their PARENTS never had a clue? .... I mentioned the drug dealings to a Barrington cop, because, fully 25% of the high school junior and senior class must SURELY know who is dealing, and really ought to narc em out simply for the reward (the $$) because their names would never show up ... just give the tip ... so they can be put into jail, like they deserve ... the dealers ... by the way, who should be prosecuted for murder in the drug OD cases ... and the cop surprised me
"So we can get them the help they need," he said.
We've come a hell of a way since the days of detective Harry Krass!
Why not take the money away from the rich so they can't afford the drugs? And have to drink booze instead? There are programs of taxation that make such things possible.
I know you can't help being a product of your environment, but I want to point out to you something about your logic, and this is a reflection upon your education, which was, elite, and, not particularly very good, EXCEPT for keeping you culturally pure, and intellectually dull
"Let's also up welfare to pay for more drugs and booze for those folks who do not want to work!"
Whom do you personally know on welfare that does not want to work?
None of the non-working, homeless folks I know drink booze. They do not have the money for it. They struggle too hard to find warmth and safety, they cannot afford to let their guard down, for other street people will take them for everything (every pathetically few thing) they own.
This is known, in logic, as "the straw man" argument
And keep more drug masking kits being made so addicts can pass their drug test and keep their welfare!
How many addicts on welfare do you know personally? How many of these addicts have drug masking kits, that you know personally? If you don't know any personally, what credible studies can you cite which would offer data in this arena.
"Caught me on a bad night. In the last six months I have gone to funerals for upper class 22 year olds who over dosed. I despise drug dealers and those that choose drugs! Sorry, had to jump in there."
I actually love the one former drug dealer that I know best. He was the perfect example of capitalism. He had a market which wanted a product. He sold them the product. He made a fortune (spent the fortune also, on drugs, booze, hookers). He never got caught. REPEAT .. he never got caught. He was VERY intelligent ... AND very street smart. He had a distribution network, and he had the cops paid off, and he NEVER sold in his own community, and, in fact, over saw the punishments (which included death) of those who DID attempt to sell for personal use in his community. Since HE did not sell in the community, the cops left him alone.
His mother never knew. His father never knew. He worked for his father and made good money working for his father, all the while graduating as valedictorian. He was so cute, so cuddly, so smart, and so savage and ruthless. Also, he did not experience physical pain in the way "normal" people do ... you could hit him in the face, the head, whereever, and he would laugh at you, and he could take out half a dozen guys ... and has done so ... How in the world could a cute white suburban kid, so smart, be the drug king pin? ... It is the perfect capitalist cover ... he looks so much like one of us," we simply assumed he was one of "us."
Who did he sell his drugs to? OTHER DRUG DEALERS with smaller markets.
SO .. let me get your argument straight here ....
BECAUSE upper class 22 year olds overdose on drugs
Poor people who in fact might not even drink or use drugs (and in all probability, don't) should not be given money to help them get jobs and raise themselves out of poverty.
THAT, dear, is your logic. And, I don't know how it looks to you .. but, to me ... it looks as if you would fit right in in Barrington, or The Grier School, or any of the 100 most elite Colleges and Universities in the U.S. ... because such places and such institutions are in place in order to continue and justify a system of indoctrination .... a system that has worked very well for the parents of the children that live there (these are the few), or go to the schools, and this, in fact, is justification (the gospel of prosperity), but in actuality, prevents a lot of very worthy and talented people from ever rising above their station of birth (the unlucky sperm clubbers).
NOW ... if that logic pleases you, and you are proud of it, fine.
That logic is not logic at all, however, in my world. And it would shame me to ever be caught propagating it.
Wonder what Jesus would say about such a system, that allows so few to possess so much and to persecute and enslave so many?
Just asking.
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John---------------------------
Oh, those darned old people. Always looking for a free ride!!!! And Mark you need to consider demographics in given areas of our country. In Virginia for example. The average meth lab operator is already on welfare and or disability. Sorry but this is a simple fact. The average crack smoker is driving a $40m plus automobile. And as for Barrington. Well... Barrington is as close to a median national demographic as is the elite university town of Charlottesville Virginia. BOTH NOT!!!! I personally know of people who have gone on mental illness disability with the intention of never working and running their own meth lab to sell to our cash cow youth. Oh and the "crazy check" from Uncle Sam is for beer and smokes. They fund the math lab by growing and selling pot. Sorry bud but my wife is in law enforcement so I hear it all.
Mark Raymond Ganzer
The "average meth lab operator?" ya'll got the demographics on that 'un? .. probably you do ... MY contention is still that MOST of the people who are homeless are so NOT because of drug addiction, alcohol abuse, or because of their skills at gaming the system most of the people who are poor are definetly NOT poor because of addictions .. but because they lost a job or because their insurance benefits ran out, and, quite frankly, if we are smart enough to means test to eliminate the meth lab folk ... WHY IN THE FUCKING HELL CAN'T THE DAMN LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES FIGURE OUT HOW TO GIT EM ... [(Oh, because a significant proportion of the COPS are part of the meth lab operations and they are paid to protect]
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Shelli---------------
Oh, you guys are putting me on my soap box, will reply at a later date.. Have to cash my welfare check ;-) j/k don't forget I got an A in debate class!
Mark
[Shelli, I am sure you did – after all, your A's were paid for by the size of the tuition check, and besides, your teachers were not even remotely interested in educating you, or hearing you come up with anything that would defy the “conventional wisdom" of the elites at the University you attended. It is very important to keep the cultural and inbreeding intact, lest the rich start to get a conscience and become class traitors like that accursed FDR (effen democratic retard)]
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John
Mark please try not to sound like Marx. (MG - I have no idea of how Marx sounded, he had already died before I was born - I have a voice that changes from slow southern to east coast effete at the drop of an intonation - it is VERY important to sound like those you wish to impress - if you can dress as do they, all the better)Y********************
our statement about taking money from the rich so they are too poor to do drugs is counterproductive. If the drug related suicides in Barrington are mostly among the upper class, this is far from the case across the rest of the nation. Creating one social injustice to cure another is not the way to remedy anything. Hope you were just kidding. :)
Mark Raymond Ganzer:
(In no way was I "just kidding.")
Okay .. i get it .. y'all don't think it makes sense to give money to poor people because some of the people that get money that is supposed to go to poor people are NOT poor ... well, how about the billion dollar [hedge] fund managers who talked GWB into cutting their marginal tax rates to 15% ... they saved themselves, I do believe $200,000,000 in taxes ... enought to provide 548,000 poor people with a one month rail pass, or 45,500 people with a rail pass for a year ... better by far, I suppose that the one gets it all, rather than risk undeservings get any
Y'all are a product of your educational back ground, and your heartlessness and ignorance are on full display
HOW MANY homeless people do you know?
For Christ's sake, I GAVE my apartment to a Viet Nam tunnel rat, who was homeless in Chicatgo, living in alleyways and making money cleaning windows. He was NOT getting any benefits. Oh, did I mention he had a metal plate in his head? [Did I mention that he had a LOT of shrapanel in his leg, and walked with a severe limp?] Did I mention that his family died one night while he was driving in Florida [How much grief counseling do you think the US government gave to Eddie?]
Y'all think the government was there to support THAT troop, with the IQ of about 85, and the heart of Jesus Christ?
Y'all don't know poor people, you'd run away from 'em in an instant if you did, afraid that its contagious. Go on, enjoy your priveleges, y'all earned them, after all, you're both members of the lucky sperm club, born in Barrington, college educated, married into an upper middle class family, or higher.
Just don't dare attempt to help the helpless, because some of them helpless might not really be helpless.
OH, wait, did I mention I paid the rent for 8 months, and the utilities (there was no phone)?
And YES, Eddie Fuensteihl DID drink some beers and smoked some cigarettes and once a month i'd go in to check on him, and sometimes he'd borrow money from me to buy [the food for the] dinner [he and his cousin would make, for me, and sometimes my girl friend too], but mostly he had enough money for dinner (his cousin moved in with him also - made things easier for both of them, and gave them companionship)
Oh, and did I mention that EDDIE initiated the conversation, "Mark, did you ever kill women and children" BECAUSE he had, and he didn't feel very fucking good about it AT ALL. [He was a baby killer, and he regretted it. Do you think Richard Nixon ever regretted it? Harry Kissinger? The Winter Soldiers? (YES, they did)]
By the way, What have y'all done to support the troops lately?
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About me:
TRAITOR – Mark Ganzer
I am a traitor
A traitor to my race
A traitor to my creed
A traitor to my gender
A traitor to my former corporate standing
A traitor to my former socio-economic status
A traitor to my cultural inculcations.
In my treachery to these, the circumstances
of the random and improbable mating of seed and egg,
of the accident of my birth, I am empowered,
and have become the most dangerous of all creatures.
walking cloaked like those, and speaking to language of
those who cleave unto their unfounded beliefs:
I am the creature which haunts their nightmares,
I am the born again human who has looked into the mirror
Seen his true self and been lain low by the painful realization that my life's choices had corrupted me, and made me and turned me upon my genuine self -- I had let creature comforts numb me from what the universe first called me to be and called me to do.
I have rejected all that for which they stand; all that they worship. Their unfounded beliefs and idols of worship revolve around these matters:
In the superiority of the white race over all other races,
In the superiority of christianity over all other faith traditions,
In the superiority of men over women,
In the wisdom of the corporate elites over the working class masses.
In the superiority of western "culture and civilization" to all other cultures and civilizations.
They self-justify these beliefs by their material "blessings" that have accrued unto them resulting from the circumstances of the random and improbable mating of sperm and egg, of the accident of their births, and, at the upper echelons, by their celebrity.
The gospel of prosperity and the cult of personality are sufficient self-justifications.
This gospel and this cult I reject out of hand, and will oppose to my last breath.
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